Sunday, April 30, 2017

Sunday, April 23, 2017

Wednesday, April 12, 2017

one dimensional Church and Death of ciilizatiom

on Metacrock's blog

On Monday I said the right wing had coopted and reduced the charismatic movement and evangelical movement from an agent of transformation to a booster for there Republican party,I intimated that this was just a symptom of a larger sickness effecting all of Western civilization. In fact that larger sickness,according to Albert Schweitzer, was the death of civilization,


http://metacrock.blogspot.com/2017/04/one-dimensional-chruch-and-death-of.html

Tuesday, April 11, 2017

the atheist need to dey the beliver's experience


from Cadre blog "shreds of evidence"

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6363362&postID=1341649437070210650&isPopup=true

Skeptical has a desperate need to impose his own narrative on my life explaining my belief in his terms,


Blogger Joe Hinman said...
how can you prove you have objective evidence?


- The key thing about objective evidence is that it isn't private. It isn't dependent on my mental state or any delusions, illusions, or hallucinations I might have. It is subject to verification.

bit it really i in the final analysis as an epistemology. Because you are always jutting through your own perceptions. Besides that just because there are supposedly objective facts that are less subjective than other states of mind that does no tmean all subjective states are invalid, untrue, or disproved.


how did belief answer when I didn't believe?


- Unless you are lying, you did indeed believe as a result of this experience, if not before. You were probably deceiving yourself by claiming to be a non-believer.

that is bull shit, you are no position of evaluate that I am its crap,. I was totally committed to atheism and ware of the possibility and guarded against it. Its the kind of thing you say when you are alarmed about the conversion of someone from your side,


You ceded intellectual satisfaction in favor of the psychological comfort that comes from submitting to belief.

First of all you are in no position to judge my intellectual acuity,I am far superior to you an intellectual. You know nothing. You have not been through the mill as I have,you are My learning towers over yours. you are an arrogant prick badly read and badly reasoned and you think you it all because you fill your head with atheist drivel.

It never occur to you that something could have changed my mind about things. Something wired happened that stripped away my sense of reality. you so desperately need to pretend you are so much smarter than all Christians. You could never think of that. It upended all confidence I had in th smug little bull shit of atheism.
4/10/2017 11:25:00 AM
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Blogger im-skeptical said...
bit it really i in the final analysis as an epistemology.
- Of course. Empiricism is an epistemology. A legitimate one, as opposed to faith.


I was totally committed to atheism and ware of the possibility and guarded against it. Its the kind of thing you say when you are alarmed about the conversion of someone from your side,
- What you are saying is that for you, atheism was like a religion. You you were committed to an ideology (of some kind), not to a search for truth wherever it might be found. That ideological zeal you had for atheism is not descriptive of what I feel. I don't get alarmed if someone turns away, but I understand that people like you who claim to be ex-atheists never really had a solid scientific understanding of the world. If they did, they couldn't suddenly start believing in miracles and supernatural beings and whatnot. Those things don't fit with that kind of understanding.


It never occur to you that something could have changed my mind about things. Something wired happened that stripped away my sense of reality. you so desperately need to pretend you are so much smarter than all Christians. You could never think of that. It upended all confidence I had in th smug little bull shit of atheism.
- Sure, something weird happened to you. And it played right into your belief system which includes miracles and supernatural beings and whatnot. This is what I've been trying to tell you. You always believed in those things, but you were telling yourself that you didn't. If you really had a scientific understanding of the world, and you didn't believe in those things, then your "experience" would have been interpreted quite differently.
4/11/2017 11:09:00 AM
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Blogger Joe Hinman said...
was totally committed to atheism and ware of the possibility and guarded against it. Its the kind of thing you say when you are alarmed about the conversion of someone from your side,

- What you are saying is that for you, atheism was like a religion. You you were committed to an ideology (of some kind), not to a search for truth wherever it might be found.

you have no idea what I was committed to you know nothing about me.


That ideological zeal you had for atheism is not descriptive of what I feel. I don't get alarmed if someone turns away, but I understand that people like you who claim to be ex-atheists never really had a solid scientific understanding of the world.

you equate science with atheism that proves you really understand science in the final analysis. Science is not part of atheism. Atheism in the 60s and 70s was not a science cult, as it is today, Science is your religion it's your replacement for God, it was not like that for atheists in my day.

If they did, they couldn't suddenly start believing in miracles and supernatural beings and whatnot. Those things don't fit with that kind of understanding.

that stuff comes when you experience it,I used to think people who belie e in such things were cracked. then I experienced the reality of it.

(JOE):"It never occur to you that something could have changed my mind about things. Something wired happened that stripped away my sense of reality. you so desperately need to pretend you are so much smarter than all Christians. You could never think of that. It upended all confidence I had in th smug little bull shit of atheism."

- Sure, something weird happened to you. And it played right into your belief system which includes miracles and supernatural beings and whatnot.

I din't have that mentality, I had your little fear of feelings,I told myself I was a Vulcan. I was a social science guy, i wanted to be sociologist. I knew a lot about sociology I read prodigiously and I had lots of social science based explanations for the nature of religion; I did not believe in any thing like miracles and I thought people who did were borderline insane.

This is what I've been trying to tell you. You always believed in those things, but you were telling yourself that you didn't.

that is bull shit. The fact that you have to resort to that kind of crap proves you are desperate to avoid the reality.

If you really had a scientific understanding of the world, and you didn't believe in those things, then your "experience" would have been interpreted quite differently.

you change your beliefs when you see. unless you are a fool and you can;t accept truth.did I tell you about the ER guys and my father and the readings changed when we prayed.? Objective facts I can;t deny because whole room full of medical people saw it,
a whole two ambulances fullof ER guys say it,
4/11/2017 12:38:00 PM
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Monday, April 10, 2017

Jesus Myther position growing

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    These research questions regarding the resurrection never take a step back to a more fundamental issue; did Jesus actually exist? I'm sure most would reply absolutely yes, but only because we've been conditioned to think it, and asking the question may sow seeds of doubt.
    I don't know if there was a real Jesus, but there's a lot of perfectly valid academic opinion that supports the mythical position. Without doubt, the evidence either way is actually weak. By asking this question it inevitably leads to a dawning realisation that talk of the resurrection of a person whose existence can't be verified is absurd.
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        it's a matter of logic.there is no reaom to think he didn;t, His existence s considers fact by historians,
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            your "academic opinion" are all radical fringe positions presenting to be mainstream.
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                Actually they are not 'radical' and nor are they fringe. I'm not sufficiently well informed to be able to form an opinion, and nor I'd suspect are you, but the fact is that Jesus as myth is an academically sound position. Even if it's wrong, it's based on such a dearth of evidence that it renders detailed stories of Jesus essentially inconceivable.
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                    no it is not, 
                    The Jesus myth imposition is considered idiocy by most historians, My committee chair called them idiots. no hesitation. He just said why waste your time with idiots?"
                    Jesus mythers are telling you it's accepted, they are not historians,
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                      Mythicism -- the proposition that the Jesus of Nazareth depicted in the gospels does not represent any actual person -- is well-established and has been argued since the late 1700's. Its proponents have primarily consisted of academics, mostly theologians or philologists and even a few clergy. The arguments of mythicist thought are firmly grounded in exegetical principles, are carefully argued with scholarly precision and nuance, and offer compelling solutions to otherwise intractable problems with the NT.
                      Despite the internet-based notoriety of an handful of unlettered, amateur hacks, mythicist research today continues to be conducted by bona fide scholars relying on a vast wealth of material ranging from apocrypha and patristic writings to the Nag Hammadi and Dead Sea Scrolls, not to mention archeological finds.
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                        Yet, how many of the "mainstream" also hold the belief that somebody actually came back to life after being dead for three days?
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                            Irrelevant the mythers try to weld those two things together like you can't have a historical man named Jesus without him doing miracles and rising from the dead.
                            But you can.